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DISCLAIMER:
This chat may not, in whole or in part, be reprinted or redistributed, without the express written consent of William J Piniarski.  All material contained herein is based on the speculations of the participants and is in no way intended to be an official or authoritative pronouncement about the status of Crusade, or the legal obligations of Warner Bros., Turner Network Television, Babylonian Productions, or Netter Digital. 

> Hi TH!
> glad you could stop by
<a_blip> But... it just doesn't feel right :)
> hahaha...I dont mind...I'm one of many voices
> TImH: What's the good word, any latest news?
<TimHeather> Hi
<TimHeather> Nothing new to report from the networks
<a_blip> How about me serving a little theory of mine...
> The last I heard was the snippet from one of the cast members 
that said there was still hope...is that the latest news you 
have too?
> go ahead blip...we would love to hear it
<TimHeather> Carrie said that the last she heard Warners was 
still supportive of the show
<a_blip> The mysterious producer JMS is working with might be 
Chris Carter...
<TimHeather> Since budgets aren't yet finished for this year, I 
believe there is still hope that Crusade...
<a_blip> He is a well known SF producer who ocationaly directs
> I would put money that he's worked with Magel B. even though 
he denied it.
<TimHeather> could be picked up for next year
> TNT still hasn't pulled the plug on their website have they?
<a_blip> With Millennium and Harsh Relm cancelld, and X-Files 
future shady
<TimHeather> No, they've just made their bboard 'read only'
<a_blip> he needs a new job
> Chris Carter is definitely going to leave Fox soon...cant 
trust them anymore
> That's kind of an unfriendly gesture
> Dont they know we can get the criticism to them in harsher 
ways...closing the BB was actually a safe outlet for fan 
frustration
<a_blip> JMS has said the both X-Files and Millennium was on the 
very short list of TV sereis he took time to watch
<TimHeather> they say they're going to redo that section, but 
with their record its easy to suspect ulterior motives
> Me included
<a_blip> and they may have met through Harlan Ellison
> Why on god's name would they redo a section for a cancelled 
show...they are nuts over there
> With all due respect to Harlen, his involvement in the series 
was highly over-rated
> Would think JMS would have met Chris a long time ago on his 
own
<TimHeather> I'm hoping this means the BB postings can have an 
effect and posting to Sci Fi and Warners might get us a 
positive response
> Just the fact that they are making some progress with the SIM 
has me encouraged.
<a_blip> What do you meen - involvment with B5 or X-Files?
<a_blip> JMS or Chris Carter?
> B5 <- Harlen's involvement
<a_blip> JMS and Harlan Ellison are *very* good friends
<a_blip> They "hang out" on a regular basis
> I didnt say that they werent
> once again I didnt say that they didnt
> TimH: Is there any prospect of WB approaching Showtime?
<a_blip> I interpeted you're statement as something like that
<TimHeather> Do you mean the upcoming Showtime sci-fi channel?
> no...all I meant was that Harlen Ellison's involvement in B5 
has a hole was highly over-rated.
> Yes, Showtime Beyond...
<a_blip> Well - it was just in the context it was said
<TimHeather> As we understand it, that won't start for about 
another 18 months...
> I can think of a hundred people that should have gotten credit 
for their involvement as a consultant ahead of him, but I will 
not dwell on it.
> sorry, context is not easy here... :)
<TimHeather> It might be possible to sell Crusade to them 
then...
> They actually already launched Showtime Beyond...
> Its currently running in test markets
<a_blip> Well the original credit he wanted was "Really 
Important Guy"... but the Writers Guild didn't approve :)
> hahahahaha
<TimHeather> do you know what programming they have for the test 
market?
> As i understand it reruns of series THEY have made so far
> like Stargate and the Outer Limits
> Which would mean they would probably pull Stargate from 
syndication soon to prevent over-exposure
> But it isnt like they have a glut of shows...they definitely 
need more
<TimHeather> Perhaps the 18 months we heard is when they'll be 
fully launching and thus looking for outside material - not 
sure?
> and its obvious that science fiction has no home on the 
networks anymore
> That's probably accurate
> Then again they would need a few months to prepare any new 
shows
> So what's the local convention scene look like around your 
areas?  There's one here in MASS this weekend
<a_blip> Resseructing Crusade would take more 
<a_blip> whoops
<a_blip> wrong button
> blip...what do you think it would take to bring crusade back?
<a_blip> Something to motive the suits
> We've prodded all of them...more likely we need a "new" suit 
in the mix
> We've seen what can happen when they change...Chris Carter 
suddenly is unwelcomed in the network he helped build just 
because one man came to power
<a_blip> I see three opertuinites - the game, the new JMS series 
... and the B5 movie
<a_blip> The game is probably the least likely
> well, two of the three are semi-short-term so thats good...the 
movie is at least half a decade off
<TimHeather> That's one source of hope - if we get a new "suit" 
in a critical place, Crusade may suddenly be welcome
> if ever
<a_blip> It isn't that they don't want to... it just isn't 
important enough
> Think after all the rocks that have hit us TimH, the creation 
of the new Crusade soundtrack at least gives us some 
inspriation
<a_blip> WB needs 100+ eps to make a profit of Crusade
*** RingSongs (Snoopy@ABD5F74C.ipt.aol.com) has joined #scifi
<RingSongs> hey guys
> hey rings...made it in
<RingSongs> yea I was at burger king
> hahahaha
> what did you have?
<TimHeather> We were really pleased to see it got made
> The new Rodeo Crusade Burger?
<RingSongs> 2 burgers w/just bacon and ketchup, french fries, 
onionrings and large coke hehe
<RingSongs> well me and my mom shared fries and rings
> Chris F. is a god-sent...what a guy to help Chen like that
<a_blip> But with shows like ER or Friends cost about a whole 
season of Crusade for *2* hours
<TimHeather> agreed
*** Derfel (cybernaut@***.nbnet.nb.ca) has joined #scifi
<Derfel> good, I picked the right week
> I don't think the problem was ever that Crusade wasn't making 
a profit...it definitely was.  It is rather cheap to make.
* webcs yes you did
<RingSongs> farscape and voyager is the only good sci fi on 
right now IMO:(
<a_blip> Yes, but how much of a profit
<a_blip> ?
<TimHeather> there was an interesting discussion at the Farpoint 
con Crusade pannel
> Dont know, all I do know is that is i owned any business and 
it was making something I wouldnt can it.
<TimHeather> Those on the pannel, who had a bit more experience 
with the tv industry...
<a_blip> Crusade is a good preformer... but they need a reason 
to stick their necks out
> go on..interesting
<TimHeather> felt that what happened to Crusade was personal - 
never about profit or quality
> I agree totally...it was a LETS SLAP THIS SHOW IN THE FACE to 
make sure every other show does exactly what its told.
<RingSongs> the onyl thing TNT LA and TNT GA could agree on was 
to stop crusade
> I think if they did agree on that there would be no website 
now.
*** Derfel (cybernaut@***.nbnet.nb.ca) has joined #scifi
<RingSongs> why would that matter?
> well, someone has to be keeping it up for a reason
<a_blip> The webmaster because he might like the show
> I know if I had a sour apple I wouldn't exactly put it on my 
mantle and display it, so to speak
*** bigE (cybernaut@***.bt.anc.net) has joined #scifi
* webcs Hi BigE
<RingSongs> how's the badge thing comin?
<a_blip> One thing is that some of the suits might actually like 
the show... but came with suggestions as to what they felt 
the target audience wanted
<TimHeather> According to Sandra Bruckner, the people running 
the TNT Crusade page like Crusade and B5...
> TIMH: So as I understand it TNT's contract runs out in just a 
few months correct?
<TimHeather> that may be the only reason its still up
> a_blip...the thing is they repeatly told JMS to do one thing 
and then another which were in conflict with each other, and 
then whined when they couldnt get both
<RingSongs> I'd say thats probably the reason why
<RingSongs> because the webmasters like it
<TimHeather> we've heard both Feb 2000 and 18 months - don't 
know which is correct
<RingSongs> but they dont got any say in it
> Well, something has to give soon...because of the whole legal 
default issue
<RingSongs> what legal issue?
> the fact that TNT was contracted to pay for an entire season 
and didnt
<Derfel> who here believes that the TNT chat room "upgrade" was 
a result of our postings?
> hmmm...good question...well, I wouldnt doubt it
<RingSongs> how do we know TNT didnt pay it off and just stop 
the show?..
<RingSongs> TNT has chat rooms? I didnt know<g>
<TimHeather> since TNT and Warners are part of the same 
"company", Warners won't sue TNT
<a_blip> As I understand WB just doesn't want to sue itself
*** Allie (cybernaut@***.direct.ca) has joined #scifi
> JMS has stated that they didn't pay, correct?
> hey allie
<Allie> hello everyone...
<TimHeather> Derfel, I think its highly likely
<Allie> what's highly likely?
> Then again is David Duckovny (spell) can sue Fox while he is 
still an employee anything can happen
<a_blip> The BBoards: Anyone checked if this might be something 
happening to all the boards?
<TimHeather> That TNT closed the bb and chat rooms due to 
Crusade fan postings
<RingSongs> warner's chat is like irc.warnerbros.com or 
something
<RingSongs> at least i was in Jan of 98 when b5 first started
> I think they may be reprogramming the boards to assure that 
there is a limit on how many posts are generated to avoid 
explosions.
<RingSongs> and I remember TNT having like tnt.turner.com for 
chat i forget
<a_blip> But anyone at Warner Bros is anserwable to Time Warner 
Vice president Ted Turner
<Allie> yes and no blip
> thats a definite yes and no!
<Allie> the website people may be responsible ultimately to TT, 
but he's so far up the chain that it's unlikely something at 
the level of websites will ever reach him.
> That's like saying everyone in america is answerable to Al 
Gore
<Allie> lol
> :)
*** bigE (cybernaut@***.bt.anc.net) has left #scifi
<Allie> so, what's new?
> I know that the chain of command in large companies is NOT 
pyramid shaped, there are usually factions.
<RingSongs> www.sballiance.com
<Allie> anything I haven't heard or SOS?
<RingSongs> SOS means?
<Allie> yes, I know Rings, I still read the list.
<Allie> Same old Stuff
<RingSongs> yea well noone responded.
<a_blip> No... it like saying someone in the white house decided 
that the white house should take offical action against a 
project Al had personaly created
<TimHeather> who is doing www.sballiance.com ?
> Speaking of lists...are there other lists we should be 
subscribing too, since ours is slowing down it seems.?
<RingSongs> I'm getting loads on a farscape list LOL my box gets 
full all the time;(
<Allie> Not that I know of Will.
> hey, whats this sballiance thing...first I've heard of it
<Allie> Is sballiance based on my "Resistance" idea?  I'm 
curious, since I've been too busy to check in lately...
<RingSongs> nope
<RingSongs> space battles alliance has been in the making for 
around a year now..
<RingSongs> never got the domain til a few weeks ago though
<RingSongs> Its basically to bring sci fi fans together, ya know 
how trekkies get mad at b5 fans and stuff alot
<RingSongs> flame wars happen on sci fi boards alot between 
different fans of different shows
> yes, and most of them are royally stupid
<RingSongs> got that right
<RingSongs> I've seen so many arguments of white star vs. 
defiant
> oh god...dont even say it
> Well Allie, I definitely think your idea has lots of merit
> and I think there is a good base for what we have all done to 
put something together
<Allie> thanks
> Have you dont anything further on that project or is it in 
limbo?
<Allie> unfortunately, I don't have time for the proejcts I'm 
working on now...
<Allie> in limbo indefinitely.
<Allie> if someone else has the time and energy, i'm all for 
them picking it up.
> Same here...unfortunately the majority of us are either 
heavily involved in something or burnt out
<Allie> If sballiance wants to carry the torch, I'll willing 
hand it over..
<RingSongs> you should email boothby@spacebattles.com Allie.  I 
think he'd like to check out your site..
<Allie> yep, that's the thing.  those of us who care enough to 
do it are already busy doing other stuff.
<TimHeather> yes, all of us way too busy
> well that site seems extrordinarily empty so far, so we'll 
have to keep an eye on it
<RingSongs> I hate school. LOL
<Allie> test
<Allie> me too...
<RingSongs> yea but the message board at sballiance.com works 
fine
<Allie> well, no I don't.
> Then again it isn't like we should be expected to carry the 
torch 52 miles instead of 26
<TimHeather> Ring, I checked out the spacebattles site, it 
seemed like they're still trying to figure out fully what 
they want to do
<RingSongs> yea.
<RingSongs> they're helping the firstones.com to save the b5 
game...I think
> From my experience even discussing those types of battles on 
usenet sometimes expands them
<Derfel> OK, so we're here to plot strategies for saving Crusade 
- so any ideas?
<RingSongs> I dont know why the SBA people arent involved in the 
save crusade campaign in the first place, they must know 
about it..
<RingSongs> has the crusade CD been released yet?
> yes!
<Allie> I don't know... I've been hearing bits and pieces of 
rumors that Sci Fi is still interested, but, nothing concrete 
and nothing from anyone who's connected enough to matter.
<TimHeather> As I mentioned on the list, we're considering 
trying to get the cast to help distribute badges and 
flyers...
<Allie> Anyone else heard anything?
<a_blip> Yep... you can get free samples on www.sonicimages.com
<TimHeather> but this will require raising more funds to pay for 
supplies...
> sometimes I think it would be easier to start out own 
network...uggghh
<a_blip> Ad banners on the Web sites?
<RingSongs> hey www.alladvantage.com
<RingSongs> it gives like 50 cents an hour your online or 
something
> Speaking of the badge thing...can someone please explain the 
whole thing to me...somehow I missed it over the past few 
weeks...whats the plan there?
<RingSongs> you have an ad widnow or something
<TimHeather> how does that work - getting ad banners?
<RingSongs> and whenyou refer people you get another 10 dcents 
for each hr they're on
<a_blip> Amason associate program?
<TimHeather> We handed out save Crusade badges with nice Crusade 
pictures on them at the Valley forge con...
<Allie> really nice badges.
<TimHeather> They were a big hit - got people talking to us, 
taking flyers, and wearing the badges all around
<Allie> good work Heather!
<TimHeather> Thanks, Allie
> how much do these cost to make each?
> and what are they made out of paper or fabric?
<TimHeather> about 30 cents a piece
<RingSongs> you should check this alladvantage thing, you could 
make up to at least 20$ a month with it.
<TimHeather> They're made of plastic pin nametag badges with 
inserts made of photo paper printed with a color image on our 
home printer
<RingSongs> and then referring all the save crusade people gives 
you even more!
<TimHeather> alladvantage?
<RingSongs> yea
<RingSongs> go www.alladvantage.com
<RingSongs> check it out..
<TimHeather> thanks, I'll take a look
<Allie> I help run an ezine, and there are tons of those kinds 
of things, but it's been my experience that you don't make 
all that much...
> but as I understand it theres no way to sell these for money 
to raise money for more?
<RingSongs> and if the rest of the crusade list joins it and 
they put you in as referred you'll be making loads
<Allie> not that it's not worth trying, but...
<TimHeather> legal issues make it a very bad idea to sell them
* webcs Brainstorm coming
<a_blip> What you want is a site that gives a banner, and then 
whever someone clicks on it you get money
<TimHeather> they've got Crusade images on them - but that's 
what makes people like them
> Hey...did anyone ever create a Save Crusade web ring?
<RingSongs> blip, noone ever clicks on those things
<RingSongs> and they bring in hardly any money
<RingSongs> I probably still have some EAds accounts omewhere 
with like only a quarter in it LOL
<TimHeather> The new info abou the badges is that Peter and 
Carrie handed them out for us at a recent con...
<a_blip> If the site said "Please support the Crusade campaign 
by visiting our sponsor they would"
<TimHeather> then asked us if they could do it again
<Derfel> isn't there already a "save Crusade" ad banner out 
there?
<TimHeather> So we're considering trying to make this an ongoing 
thing - to keep up interest in Crusade and help ge the save 
Crusade info out at cons
> thing is gotta pace ourselves because we are going to have 
heart attacks...not that we havent had plenty already
<RingSongs> I just thought of something..
<TimHeather> that's part of the problem - we'd like to try to 
keep things going, but not go crazy in the process :)
<RingSongs> how bout you take "donations" for like oh 5 or 10$ 
and everyone would get a badge for "donating" and it wouldnt 
be illegal sales...
<Derfel> I would go for that Rings
<TimHeather> That's one of the things we're considering - I 
think it's a good possibility
> TimH: It did work extremely well with the shirts, albeit there 
were no images like are on your badges
> The responses I got from all involed were incredibly happy to 
see something like that in place
<RingSongs> I didnt get money sent out:( it sucks for me oh well
<Allie> T&H, I just had an idea that might work. I'll need to 
toss it around with some other people, and then I'll get back 
to you.
> And since the badges are so cheap even a small domation would 
mean alot more than in the case of the shirts where the 
margins were larger
<TimHeather> Ok, thanks Allie
> I mean, I would be more than happy to plug a final badge idea 
on my website...I have people coming to me weekly pleading for 
me to make more shirts...so offering badges would quench them
<RingSongs> hey will if you make more shirts you tell me 
immediately!
<TimHeather> yes, the biggest problem with doing donations is 
all the little bits of work involved in handling money and 
sending out badges - it ads up
<Allie> and I'll definitely put it up on Voice, as soon as I get 
a chance to breathe... I'm doing research between comments 
here...
> Since the shirt situation was so complex, there wont be more, 
but thanks for the interest.
> TimH: do you have specific info and images of the badges on 
your website?
<TimHeather> I still need to talk to Peter and Carrie and see if 
they're interested in doing this long term before we make any 
decisions or announcements
<Derfel> With badges, we target people attending sci-fi 
conventions.  How do we reach a broader base?
> The internet is pretty broad
<Allie> probably not a bad idea... Carrie's pretty good about 
answering her email.  How do you plan to contact Peter?  He'd 
be key since he's got the most intensive con schedule.
> He's a con nut
<TimHeather> We're sending him the badges for his next con, so 
we'll be able to contact him
* webcs AS WE APPROACH 9...WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANKS TO ALL FOR 
STOPPING BY
<TimHeather> Derfel: we've tried asking people to put out flyers 
at their local comic book stores etc.
<RingSongs> we still got 10 minutes will
<RingSongs> lol
* webcs THIS TURNED OUT TO BE A VERY PRODUCTIVE MEETING
<a_blip> How many hits do the save crusade sites get?
> I know...you may stay as long as you like
<RingSongs> I have no clue..isnt there counters on the pages?
<Derfel> T&H' s site is at 92,000 now.
<RingSongs> TH: did you check out the alladvantage thing?
<TimHeather> our main page gets about 1000 per week now, the 
latest news page probably get's more
<TimHeather> we'll check it out later tonight
<RingSongs> I dont think I've had the URL since I lost my fav. 
places
<RingSongs> and crusade ended
* webcs WOULD LIKE TO GET BACK TOGETHER LIKE THIS SOMETIME AFTER 
THE HOLIDAYS TO SEE WHAT IS BREWING...HOPEFULLY SOME US US 
WILL BE RESTED BY THEN
<Derfel> "after the holidays" - are you talking January?
<Allie> my site's at about 33000 since July... not much recently 
since I haven't updated...
> Yes, I am talking January...at least for my organizational 
effort...I anticipate having zero time in the next two months.
> as always I encourage others to organize
<Allie> T&H, how are you holding up?
<a_blip> there are a lot of associate programes out there
<TimHeather> very tired
<Allie> I expect so...
<TimHeather> and you, Allie?
> your efforts are appreciated T&H
<Allie> busy busy busy...
<TimHeather> Thanks
<Allie> spending several hours a day working on my new project 
and making good progress
> sounds promising
<Allie> should be ready for a major public announcement after 
Thanksgiving.
<RingSongs> I'm gonna be in Hawaii over thanksgiving week
> vacation Rings?
<Allie> at which time I'll be taking volunteers. lol.
<RingSongs> you bet
> I'll second that
<Allie> have a good time Rings, I'll be visiting family in 
Scottsdale.
<RingSongs> In Christmas break, I'm sure I can schedule 
something with TWO WHOLE WEEKS OFF of school :) :) :) :) :)
> I'll be battling my inlaws.... :)
<Allie> oh light...
<Allie> heh, my parents and J-P's parents will meet for the 
first time after Xmas...
<RingSongs> my cousin's in college adn gets like 4 weeks off for 
xmas
<Allie> I'm terrified, excited, enthused, amused and nervous all 
at once...
<TimHeather> good luck, Allie :)
<Allie> thanks T&H
* webcs Gotta go...thanks to all again for lending there time 
and voices
<Allie> hey, is anyone going to Agamemcon?
<Allie> I know it's not til June, but... :)
<RingSongs> I have homework:( lots of homework I'll talk to you 
guys um whenever I talk to you<eg>
<Allie> might as well plan ahead...
> Where is it allie?
<Allie> ciao Rings.
<RingSongs> where is agamemcon?
<Allie> Aggie is in LA
<TimHeather> bye
<a_blip> bye
<RingSongs> Los Angeles???
<Allie> T&H, you aren't leaving are you?
<Allie> Yes, Los Angeles...
<RingSongs> They sellling tickets yet? Must give me URL I have 
never been to a con :)
<TimHeather> saying bye to Rings
<Allie> maybe Burbank...
<Allie> I dunno if they are selling tix yet, but they are 
definitely taking volunteers...
> unfortinately I'm in MASS, otherwise I would be there
<Allie> I'll put the URL on Save Crusade this week.
<RingSongs> They couldnt use a 14 year old for anything<g>
<RingSongs> I was gonna go to a trek con in pasadena but I 
couldnt:(
<Allie> If it were going to be super-incredible cool would you 
be able to come Will?
<Derfel> Allie - Beee-have
<Allie> Huh?
<Allie> Always do...
> If I had unlimited resources and a transporter yes
<RingSongs> I dont care if its super incredible or not I want to 
go! :) bye all
<Allie> see ya!
> cya
<TimHeather> is this a hint, Allie?
<Allie> nope.
<Allie> :)
> Maybe stop by my neck of the corridor :)
<Allie> Just a tip that Will might want to start saving his 
pennies.
> oh boy
<Allie> lol
> hehe
> dont know Allie...think you and me in the same building would 
open a worm hole or something?
> just kidding :)
*** Invisible2U (depress@***.25.alltel.net) has joined #scifi
<Allie> nah, we're past all that.
> I know...good to laugh about it all :)
<Allie> Besides, it'd be kind of cool if it did...
<Allie> I mean, I'd love to visit the Delta Quadrant!
<Allie> ;)
> YES ME AND ALLIE ARE THE SECRET TO WARP TRAVEL
> anyways, gotta go, my wife is gonna kill me...
<Allie> Together we can tear a hole in the space-time 
continuum... hehehe
> hahahaha
> have a good night all
<Allie> Indeed, tell her we're sorry to have kept you so long.
> I will be sure to do that.
<Allie> night Will!
<a_blip> bye
<TimHeather> bye Will
> make sure to send me info on the badges if you finalize so I 
can post it...later
-> *chat* log end...
<TimHeather> will do...and thanks
* webcs chat log end....
Session Close: Mon Nov 01 21:09:17 1999