|SAVE CRUSADE MEETING CHAT, NOV 1ST, 1999 -
This chat may not, in whole or in part, be reprinted or redistributed,
without the express written consent of William J Piniarski. All material
contained herein is based on the speculations of the participants and is
in no way intended to be an official or authoritative pronouncement about
the status of Crusade, or the legal obligations of Warner Bros., Turner
Network Television, Babylonian Productions, or Netter Digital.
Meeting Highights: [ badge discussion | sballiance
site | Agamemcon 2000 discussion ]
> Hi TH!
> glad you could stop by
<a_blip> But... it just doesn't feel right :)
> hahaha...I dont mind...I'm one of many voices
> TImH: What's the good word, any latest news?
<TimHeather> Nothing new to report from the networks
<a_blip> How about me serving a little theory of mine...
> The last I heard was the snippet from one of the cast
that said there was still hope...is that the latest news
> go ahead blip...we would love to hear it
<TimHeather> Carrie said that the last she heard Warners
still supportive of the show
<a_blip> The mysterious producer JMS is working with
<TimHeather> Since budgets aren't yet finished for
this year, I
believe there is still hope that Crusade...
<a_blip> He is a well known SF producer who ocationaly
> I would put money that he's worked with Magel B. even
he denied it.
<TimHeather> could be picked up for next year
> TNT still hasn't pulled the plug on their website have
<a_blip> With Millennium and Harsh Relm cancelld,
<TimHeather> No, they've just made their bboard 'read
<a_blip> he needs a new job
> Chris Carter is definitely going to leave Fox soon...cant
trust them anymore
> That's kind of an unfriendly gesture
> Dont they know we can get the criticism to them in
ways...closing the BB was actually a safe outlet for
<a_blip> JMS has said the both X-Files and Millennium
was on the
very short list of TV sereis he took time to watch
<TimHeather> they say they're going to redo that section,
with their record its easy to suspect ulterior motives
> Me included
<a_blip> and they may have met through Harlan Ellison
> Why on god's name would they redo a section for a cancelled
show...they are nuts over there
> With all due respect to Harlen, his involvement in
was highly over-rated
> Would think JMS would have met Chris a long time ago
<TimHeather> I'm hoping this means the BB postings
can have an
effect and posting to Sci Fi and Warners might get us
> Just the fact that they are making some progress with
has me encouraged.
<a_blip> What do you meen - involvment with B5 or
<a_blip> JMS or Chris Carter?
> B5 <- Harlen's involvement
<a_blip> JMS and Harlan Ellison are *very* good friends
<a_blip> They "hang out" on a regular basis
> I didnt say that they werent
> once again I didnt say that they didnt
> TimH: Is there any prospect of WB approaching Showtime?
<a_blip> I interpeted you're statement as something
<TimHeather> Do you mean the upcoming Showtime sci-fi
> no...all I meant was that Harlen Ellison's involvement
has a hole was highly over-rated.
> Yes, Showtime Beyond...
<a_blip> Well - it was just in the context it was
<TimHeather> As we understand it, that won't start
another 18 months...
> I can think of a hundred people that should have gotten
for their involvement as a consultant ahead of him, but
not dwell on it.
> sorry, context is not easy here... :)
<TimHeather> It might be possible to sell Crusade
> They actually already launched Showtime Beyond...
> Its currently running in test markets
<a_blip> Well the original credit he wanted was "Really
Important Guy"... but the Writers Guild didn't approve
<TimHeather> do you know what programming they have
for the test
> As i understand it reruns of series THEY have made
> like Stargate and the Outer Limits
> Which would mean they would probably pull Stargate
syndication soon to prevent over-exposure
> But it isnt like they have a glut of shows...they definitely
<TimHeather> Perhaps the 18 months we heard is when
fully launching and thus looking for outside material
> and its obvious that science fiction has no home on
> That's probably accurate
> Then again they would need a few months to prepare
> So what's the local convention scene look like around
areas? There's one here in MASS this weekend
<a_blip> Resseructing Crusade would take more
<a_blip> wrong button
> blip...what do you think it would take to bring crusade
<a_blip> Something to motive the suits
> We've prodded all of them...more likely we need a "new"
in the mix
> We've seen what can happen when they change...Chris
suddenly is unwelcomed in the network he helped build
because one man came to power
<a_blip> I see three opertuinites - the game, the
new JMS series
... and the B5 movie
<a_blip> The game is probably the least likely
> well, two of the three are semi-short-term so thats
movie is at least half a decade off
<TimHeather> That's one source of hope - if we get
a new "suit"
in a critical place, Crusade may suddenly be welcome
> if ever
<a_blip> It isn't that they don't want to... it just
> Think after all the rocks that have hit us TimH, the
of the new Crusade soundtrack at least gives us some
<a_blip> WB needs 100+ eps to make a profit of Crusade
*** RingSongs (Snoopy@ABD5F74C.ipt.aol.com) has joined
<RingSongs> hey guys
> hey rings...made it in
<RingSongs> yea I was at burger king
> what did you have?
<TimHeather> We were really pleased to see it got
> The new Rodeo Crusade Burger?
<RingSongs> 2 burgers w/just bacon and ketchup, french
onionrings and large coke hehe
<RingSongs> well me and my mom shared fries and rings
> Chris F. is a god-sent...what a guy to help Chen like
<a_blip> But with shows like ER or Friends cost about
season of Crusade for *2* hours
*** Derfel (cybernaut@***.nbnet.nb.ca) has joined #scifi
<Derfel> good, I picked the right week
> I don't think the problem was ever that Crusade wasn't
a profit...it definitely was. It is rather cheap
* webcs yes you did
<RingSongs> farscape and voyager is the only good
sci fi on
right now IMO:(
<a_blip> Yes, but how much of a profit
<TimHeather> there was an interesting discussion at
con Crusade pannel
> Dont know, all I do know is that is i owned any business
it was making something I wouldnt can it.
<TimHeather> Those on the pannel, who had a bit more
with the tv industry...
<a_blip> Crusade is a good preformer... but they need
to stick their necks out
> go on..interesting
<TimHeather> felt that what happened to Crusade was
never about profit or quality
> I agree totally...it was a LETS SLAP THIS SHOW IN THE
make sure every other show does exactly what its told.
<RingSongs> the onyl thing TNT LA and TNT GA could
agree on was
to stop crusade
> I think if they did agree on that there would be no
*** Derfel (cybernaut@***.nbnet.nb.ca) has joined #scifi
<RingSongs> why would that matter?
> well, someone has to be keeping it up for a reason
<a_blip> The webmaster because he might like the show
> I know if I had a sour apple I wouldn't exactly put
it on my
mantle and display it, so to speak
*** bigE (cybernaut@***.bt.anc.net) has joined #scifi
* webcs Hi BigE
<RingSongs> how's the badge thing comin?
<a_blip> One thing is that some of the suits might
the show... but came with suggestions as to what they
the target audience wanted
<TimHeather> According to Sandra Bruckner, the people
the TNT Crusade page like Crusade and B5...
> TIMH: So as I understand it TNT's contract runs out
in just a
few months correct?
<TimHeather> that may be the only reason its still
> a_blip...the thing is they repeatly told JMS to do
and then another which were in conflict with each other,
then whined when they couldnt get both
<RingSongs> I'd say thats probably the reason why
<RingSongs> because the webmasters like it
<TimHeather> we've heard both Feb 2000 and 18 months
know which is correct
<RingSongs> but they dont got any say in it
> Well, something has to give soon...because of the whole
<RingSongs> what legal issue?
> the fact that TNT was contracted to pay for an entire
<Derfel> who here believes that the TNT chat room
a result of our postings?
> hmmm...good question...well, I wouldnt doubt it
<RingSongs> how do we know TNT didnt pay it off and
<RingSongs> TNT has chat rooms? I didnt know<g>
<TimHeather> since TNT and Warners are part of the
"company", Warners won't sue TNT
<a_blip> As I understand WB just doesn't want to sue
*** Allie (cybernaut@***.direct.ca) has joined #scifi
> JMS has stated that they didn't pay, correct?
> hey allie
<Allie> hello everyone...
<TimHeather> Derfel, I think its highly likely
<Allie> what's highly likely?
> Then again is David Duckovny (spell) can sue Fox while
still an employee anything can happen
<a_blip> The BBoards: Anyone checked if this might
happening to all the boards?
<TimHeather> That TNT closed the bb and chat rooms
Crusade fan postings
<RingSongs> warner's chat is like irc.warnerbros.com
<RingSongs> at least i was in Jan of 98 when b5 first
> I think they may be reprogramming the boards to assure
there is a limit on how many posts are generated to avoid
<RingSongs> and I remember TNT having like tnt.turner.com
chat i forget
<a_blip> But anyone at Warner Bros is anserwable to
Vice president Ted Turner
<Allie> yes and no blip
> thats a definite yes and no!
<Allie> the website people may be responsible ultimately
but he's so far up the chain that it's unlikely something
the level of websites will ever reach him.
> That's like saying everyone in america is answerable
*** bigE (cybernaut@***.bt.anc.net) has left #scifi
<Allie> so, what's new?
> I know that the chain of command in large companies
pyramid shaped, there are usually factions.
<Allie> anything I haven't heard or SOS?
<RingSongs> SOS means?
<Allie> yes, I know Rings, I still read the list.
<Allie> Same old Stuff
<RingSongs> yea well noone responded.
<a_blip> No... it like saying someone in the white
that the white house should take offical action against
project Al had personaly created
<TimHeather> who is doing www.sballiance.com ?
> Speaking of lists...are there other lists we should
subscribing too, since ours is slowing down it seems.?
<RingSongs> I'm getting loads on a farscape list LOL
my box gets
full all the time;(
<Allie> Not that I know of Will.
> hey, whats this sballiance thing...first I've heard
<Allie> Is sballiance based on my "Resistance" idea?
curious, since I've been too busy to check in lately...
<RingSongs> space battles alliance has been in the
around a year now..
<RingSongs> never got the domain til a few weeks ago
<RingSongs> Its basically to bring sci fi fans together,
how trekkies get mad at b5 fans and stuff alot
<RingSongs> flame wars happen on sci fi boards alot
different fans of different shows
> yes, and most of them are royally stupid
<RingSongs> got that right
<RingSongs> I've seen so many arguments of white star
> oh god...dont even say it
> Well Allie, I definitely think your idea has lots of
> and I think there is a good base for what we have all
put something together
> Have you dont anything further on that project or is
<Allie> unfortunately, I don't have time for the proejcts
working on now...
<Allie> in limbo indefinitely.
<Allie> if someone else has the time and energy, i'm
them picking it up.
> Same here...unfortunately the majority of us are either
heavily involved in something or burnt out
<Allie> If sballiance wants to carry the torch, I'll
hand it over..
<RingSongs> you should email email@example.com
think he'd like to check out your site..
<Allie> yep, that's the thing. those of us who
care enough to
do it are already busy doing other stuff.
<TimHeather> yes, all of us way too busy
> well that site seems extrordinarily empty so far, so
have to keep an eye on it
<RingSongs> I hate school. LOL
<Allie> me too...
<RingSongs> yea but the message board at sballiance.com
<Allie> well, no I don't.
> Then again it isn't like we should be expected to carry
torch 52 miles instead of 26
<TimHeather> Ring, I checked out the spacebattles
seemed like they're still trying to figure out fully
they want to do
<RingSongs> they're helping the firstones.com to save
> From my experience even discussing those types of battles
usenet sometimes expands them
<Derfel> OK, so we're here to plot strategies for
- so any ideas?
<RingSongs> I dont know why the SBA people arent involved
save crusade campaign in the first place, they must know
<RingSongs> has the crusade CD been released yet?
<Allie> I don't know... I've been hearing bits and
rumors that Sci Fi is still interested, but, nothing
and nothing from anyone who's connected enough to matter.
<TimHeather> As I mentioned on the list, we're considering
trying to get the cast to help distribute badges and
<Allie> Anyone else heard anything?
<a_blip> Yep... you can get free samples on www.sonicimages.com
<TimHeather> but this will require raising more funds
to pay for
> sometimes I think it would be easier to start out own
<a_blip> Ad banners on the Web sites?
<RingSongs> hey www.alladvantage.com
<RingSongs> it gives like 50 cents an hour your online
> Speaking of the badge thing...can
someone please explain the
whole thing to me...somehow I missed it over the past
weeks...whats the plan there?
<RingSongs> you have an ad widnow or something
<TimHeather> how does that work - getting ad banners?
<RingSongs> and whenyou refer people you get another
for each hr they're on
<a_blip> Amason associate program?
<TimHeather> We handed out save Crusade badges with
pictures on them at the Valley forge con...
<Allie> really nice badges.
<TimHeather> They were a big hit - got people talking
taking flyers, and wearing the badges all around
<Allie> good work Heather!
<TimHeather> Thanks, Allie
> how much do these cost to make each?
> and what are they made out of paper or fabric?
<TimHeather> about 30 cents a piece
<RingSongs> you should check this alladvantage thing,
make up to at least 20$ a month with it.
<TimHeather> They're made of plastic pin nametag badges
inserts made of photo paper printed with a color image
<RingSongs> and then referring all the save crusade
you even more!
<RingSongs> go www.alladvantage.com
<RingSongs> check it out..
<TimHeather> thanks, I'll take a look
<Allie> I help run an ezine, and there are tons of
of things, but it's been my experience that you don't
all that much...
> but as I understand it theres no way to sell these
to raise money for more?
<RingSongs> and if the rest of the crusade list joins
they put you in as referred you'll be making loads
<Allie> not that it's not worth trying, but...
<TimHeather> legal issues make it a very bad idea
to sell them
* webcs Brainstorm coming
<a_blip> What you want is a site that gives a banner,
whever someone clicks on it you get money
<TimHeather> they've got Crusade images on them -
what makes people like them
> Hey...did anyone ever create a Save Crusade web ring?
<RingSongs> blip, noone ever clicks on those things
<RingSongs> and they bring in hardly any money
<RingSongs> I probably still have some EAds accounts
with like only a quarter in it LOL
<TimHeather> The new info abou the badges is that
Carrie handed them out for us at a recent con...
<a_blip> If the site said "Please support the Crusade
by visiting our sponsor they would"
<TimHeather> then asked us if they could do it again
<Derfel> isn't there already a "save Crusade" ad banner
<TimHeather> So we're considering trying to make this
thing - to keep up interest in Crusade and help ge the
Crusade info out at cons
> thing is gotta pace ourselves because we are going
heart attacks...not that we havent had plenty already
<RingSongs> I just thought of something..
<TimHeather> that's part of the problem - we'd like
to try to
keep things going, but not go crazy in the process :)
<RingSongs> how bout you take "donations" for like
oh 5 or 10$
and everyone would get a badge for "donating" and it
be illegal sales...
<Derfel> I would go for that Rings
<TimHeather> That's one of the things we're considering
think it's a good possibility
> TimH: It did work extremely well with the shirts, albeit
were no images like are on your badges
> The responses I got from all involed were incredibly
see something like that in place
<RingSongs> I didnt get money sent out:( it sucks
for me oh well
<Allie> T&H, I just had an idea that might work.
I'll need to
toss it around with some other people, and then I'll
> And since the badges are so cheap even a small domation
mean alot more than in the case of the shirts where the
margins were larger
<TimHeather> Ok, thanks Allie
> I mean, I would be more than happy to plug a final
on my website...I have people coming to me weekly pleading
me to make more shirts...so offering badges would quench
<RingSongs> hey will if you make more shirts you tell
<TimHeather> yes, the biggest problem with doing donations
all the little bits of work involved in handling money
sending out badges - it ads up
<Allie> and I'll definitely put it up on Voice, as
soon as I get
a chance to breathe... I'm doing research between comments
> Since the shirt situation was so complex, there wont
but thanks for the interest.
> TimH: do you have specific info and images of the badges
<TimHeather> I still need to talk to Peter and Carrie
and see if
they're interested in doing this long term before we
decisions or announcements
<Derfel> With badges, we target people attending sci-fi
conventions. How do we reach a broader base?
> The internet is pretty broad
<Allie> probably not a bad idea... Carrie's pretty
answering her email. How do you plan to contact
be key since he's got the most intensive con schedule.
> He's a con nut
<TimHeather> We're sending him the badges for his
next con, so
we'll be able to contact him
* webcs AS WE APPROACH 9...WOULD LIKE TO SAY THANKS TO
<TimHeather> Derfel: we've tried asking people to
put out flyers
at their local comic book stores etc.
<RingSongs> we still got 10 minutes will
* webcs THIS TURNED OUT TO BE A VERY PRODUCTIVE MEETING
<a_blip> How many hits do the save crusade sites get?
> I know...you may stay as long as you like
<RingSongs> I have no clue..isnt there counters on
<Derfel> T&H' s site is at 92,000 now.
<RingSongs> TH: did you check out the alladvantage
<TimHeather> our main page gets about 1000 per week
latest news page probably get's more
<TimHeather> we'll check it out later tonight
<RingSongs> I dont think I've had the URL since I
lost my fav.
<RingSongs> and crusade ended
* webcs WOULD LIKE TO GET BACK TOGETHER LIKE THIS SOMETIME
THE HOLIDAYS TO SEE WHAT IS BREWING...HOPEFULLY SOME
WILL BE RESTED BY THEN
<Derfel> "after the holidays" - are you talking January?
<Allie> my site's at about 33000 since July... not
since I haven't updated...
> Yes, I am talking January...at least for my organizational
effort...I anticipate having zero time in the next two
> as always I encourage others to organize
<Allie> T&H, how are you holding up?
<a_blip> there are a lot of associate programes out
<TimHeather> very tired
<Allie> I expect so...
<TimHeather> and you, Allie?
> your efforts are appreciated T&H
<Allie> busy busy busy...
<Allie> spending several hours a day working on my
and making good progress
> sounds promising
<Allie> should be ready for a major public announcement
<RingSongs> I'm gonna be in Hawaii over thanksgiving
> vacation Rings?
<Allie> at which time I'll be taking volunteers. lol.
<RingSongs> you bet
> I'll second that
<Allie> have a good time Rings, I'll be visiting family
<RingSongs> In Christmas break, I'm sure I can schedule
something with TWO WHOLE WEEKS OFF of school :) :) :)
> I'll be battling my inlaws.... :)
<Allie> oh light...
<Allie> heh, my parents and J-P's parents will meet
first time after Xmas...
<RingSongs> my cousin's in college adn gets like 4
weeks off for
<Allie> I'm terrified, excited, enthused, amused and
<TimHeather> good luck, Allie :)
<Allie> thanks T&H
* webcs Gotta go...thanks to all again for lending there
<Allie> hey, is anyone going
<Allie> I know it's not til June, but... :)
<RingSongs> I have homework:( lots of homework I'll
talk to you
guys um whenever I talk to you<eg>
<Allie> might as well plan ahead...
> Where is it allie?
<Allie> ciao Rings.
<RingSongs> where is agamemcon?
<Allie> Aggie is in LA
<RingSongs> Los Angeles???
<Allie> T&H, you aren't leaving are you?
<Allie> Yes, Los Angeles...
<RingSongs> They sellling tickets yet? Must give me
URL I have
never been to a con :)
<TimHeather> saying bye to Rings
<Allie> maybe Burbank...
<Allie> I dunno if they are selling tix yet, but they
definitely taking volunteers...
> unfortinately I'm in MASS, otherwise I would be there
<Allie> I'll put the URL on Save Crusade this week.
<RingSongs> They couldnt use a 14 year old for anything<g>
<RingSongs> I was gonna go to a trek con in pasadena
<Allie> If it were going to be super-incredible cool
be able to come Will?
<Derfel> Allie - Beee-have
<Allie> Always do...
> If I had unlimited resources and a transporter yes
<RingSongs> I dont care if its super incredible or
not I want to
go! :) bye all
<Allie> see ya!
<TimHeather> is this a hint, Allie?
> Maybe stop by my neck of the corridor :)
<Allie> Just a tip that Will might want to start saving
> oh boy
> dont know Allie...think you and me in the same building
open a worm hole or something?
> just kidding :)
*** Invisible2U (depress@***.25.alltel.net) has joined
<Allie> nah, we're past all that.
> I know...good to laugh about it all :)
<Allie> Besides, it'd be kind of cool if it did...
<Allie> I mean, I'd love to visit the Delta Quadrant!
> YES ME AND ALLIE ARE THE SECRET TO WARP TRAVEL
> anyways, gotta go, my wife is gonna kill me...
<Allie> Together we can tear a hole in the space-time
> have a good night all
<Allie> Indeed, tell her we're sorry to have kept
you so long.
> I will be sure to do that.
<Allie> night Will!
<TimHeather> bye Will
> make sure to send me info on the badges if you finalize
can post it...later
-> *chat* log end...
<TimHeather> will do...and thanks
* webcs chat log end....
Session Close: Mon Nov 01 21:09:17 1999
1999-present, WJP Productions and WEBster Computing Services. SCIFI
RANGER is a trademark.
All rights reserved.