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DISCLAIMER:
This chat may not, in whole or in part, be reprinted or redistributed, without the express written consent of William J Piniarski.  All material contained herein is based on the speculations of the participants and is in no way intended to be an official or authoritative pronouncement about the status of Crusade, or the legal obligations of Warner Bros., Turner Network Television, Babylonian Productions, or Netter Digital.

<willjp> hi lizzardo 
<lizzardo> Hi all 
<RingSongs> I bet alot of people will come when Dr. Chambers ( I forget her real name) comes in a few weeks
<Larida> hi lizzardo 
<willjp> Marjean is her name 
<willjp> Its just nice to talk to you guys...the list is so long and so many emails 
<RingSongs> oh yea 
<lizzardo> At the tnt chat it was chaos!!!  She typed slow and the comments from everyone were flying! 
<willjp> Maybe we can do some Crusade trivia later 
<lizzardo> I'm not great at trivia!! 
<willjp> Her chat here will be handled differently 
<RingSongs> I miss the daily B5 reruns:( 
<lizzardo> I miss crusade!!! 
<willjp> So what are your favorite shows besides crusade? 
<RingSongs> Your gonna moderate it when she comes right 
<RingSongs> Farscape! 
<willjp> YES...I am 
<RingSongs> I like it, sorry to say, even better than Crusade and B5 and trek lol 
<lizzardo> Hey - since we're a small group here I have a quick question  - did any of you see the crusade scripts on ebay? 
<lizzardo> Farscape better than Crusade - no way - I do like american gothic when it was on! 
<RingSongs> eh 
<RingSongs> I like what I like:P 
<RingSongs> Well maybe not better than the final episode of crusade, but certainly better than war zone 
<lizzardo> Have any of you read the B5 books? 
<RingSongs> I didnt like the long road or well of forever either the rest were cool, especially the final 5 
<RingSongs> I've read all of em 
<RingSongs> except Telepath series 
<RingSongs> I think 
<lizzardo> I just read the one about Marcus - I just started reading the first one of the telepath - it's very interesting! 
<willjp> Does anyone know how to record transcripts via IRC?  Just curious? 
<RingSongs> yes 
<lizzardo> Nope - IRC drives me nuts! 
<RingSongs> go to file then options then go to logging 
<willjp> you know rings? 
-> [willjp] VERSION 
<lizzardo> I just saw on the options and actions - there's an option for room transcripts 
<RingSongs> well you have a VERY old version 
<willjp> ok...then it will log everything said? 
<RingSongs> it should 
<willjp> ok...want to test it tonight so we get it right on the 27th :) 
<lizzardo> Ring -  which was your fav B5 book? 
<RingSongs> hmm thats a tough one 
<RingSongs> maybe #3 Blood Oath 
<RingSongs> the one about sinclair where sakai dies is good too 
<lizzardo> Are the books more detailed than the eps ? 
<lizzardo> The Sinclair one was the one I read - I liked it a lot! 
<RingSongs> there isnt any books of eps 
<RingSongs> In The Beginning was more detailed big time 
<tydalforce> hello 
<RingSongs> it had extra scenes tii 
<RingSongs> too 
<lizzardo> That's what I meant - more detailed - 
<willjp> ho tydalforce 
<RingSongs> yea 
<lizzardo> Hi Tyda! 
<RingSongs> well the TV Movies are the only ones 
<RingSongs> that they made books of 
<willjp> dont recognize that name tidal..are you from the mailing list? 
<tydalforce> i'm on the SavCrusade list...  my name is Michael 
<lizzardo> Oh - I think I've got to look around some more - my bookstore didn't have many - only the movie ones! 
*** irc.chatway.com sets mode: +o webcs 
<RingSongs> thats what I said 
<willjp> ah...hi Michael 
<RingSongs> They only made books of the tv movies 
<lizzardo> But the sinclair one wasn't a movie 
<RingSongs> I know 
<willjp> So what's everyone's opinion...will the SciFi channel make a statement soon or will theyjust say nothing? 
<RingSongs> oh well 
<RingSongs> they have like 10 of those 
<RingSongs> those are older books 
<RingSongs> I hope they say "We are adding Crusade to our Sci Fi Prime line up" 
<tydalforce> I hope so too 
<lizzardo> I wrote all my letters - TNT, SCI FI, FX, WB - hope they figure it out! 
<tydalforce> as long as they don't mess with it 
<RingSongs> TNT screwed it up 
<RingSongs> big time 
<tydalforce> i wrote letters to TNT, WB, SCI-FI, and USA (cuz they own Sci-fi) 
<RingSongs> they screwed up like 1/3 of the series 
<lizzardo> I don't think JMS would stand for anyone interfering anymore!!!  Not after TNT 
<lizzardo> When do the "true feelings about TNT" letter writing campain start - I've got some choice words for them! 
<willjp> I wouldnt either...and I'm really tired of people blaiming JMS...I know him personally well enough to be really insulted when people do that 
<RingSongs> I watched the Lost IN SPace marathon on Sci Fi yesterday LOL 
<RingSongs> You know him personally? 
<lizzardo> That whole JMS thread was wierd - he's just a guy trying to do something he loves! 
<RingSongs> well he could've gone on a talk show or soemthing 
<RingSongs> and told the TV Viewers about us 
<tydalforce> i'm sure we're all mad at TNT, but i think the loss of viewers when they lose the B5 universe will be sufficient revenge 
<willjp> I'm a scifi writer and I know if I wrote something and they did that to me I would leave too...and people keep saying he should have stayed...thats nuts 
<lizzardo> willip - tell us a little about your impressions of JMS? 
<willjp> well... 
<RingSongs> its 4:30...not too many people here 
<lizzardo> It's also labor day!!! 
<RingSongs> its just like any other old summer day to me :) 
<willjp> He's a work-a-holic, like me, and tries to do too much...he spends way too much time working and away from home and his wife.  But he's a genious. 
<lizzardo> and........ 
<willjp> He really should spread the work around instead of dong it all himself...something I'm trying to do myself with my second book. 
<RingSongs> I still think he or the actors could've done some publicity for us or something 
<willjp> You get to the point where you want to do it all yourself beceause you want it to be perfect.  But it cant be perfect. 
<willjp> Well, Marjean has been incredible...just gotta say that. 
<RingSongs> JMS didnt write all the crusade eps I dont think.. 
<lizzardo> That's so tough to do something - TNT and their hordes of lawyers could have made some trouble 
<tydalforce> no, he didn't 
<RingSongs> Hey how did you get marjean to do a chat with us? 
<willjp> Not all of them, no 
<willjp> Fiona Avery did a few and one other person did one I believe 
<lizzardo> fionia avery did - and her scripts are for sale on ebay!! 
<RingSongs> I wont have all the B5 episodes on tape until like February cuz of stupid TNT 
<willjp> rings...can you record a transcript of this chat just in case mine fails?  thnaks, Will 
<lizzardo> I didn't tape crusade - but found some one to make a copy 
<RingSongs> I'm recording it anyways:) 
<willjp> ok...good :) 
<willjp> just dont erase it :) 
<willjp> so what do all of you do for a living..like to do a cross section 
<willjp> I recorded B5 since its first season...so I fortunately have all of them 
<lizzardo> I'm a consultant/ computer analyst/programmer 
<tydalforce> i'm a college student, and a part time sales associate / computer technician 
<willjp> ahhh...cool lizzardo...I actually own an internet service provider 
<RingSongs> what do I do? I go to Jr. High lol 
<Larida> work in an office 
<lizzardo> Yeah - I looked into that at one time - looked like a headache!! 
<willjp> wish i was there with you rings 
<willjp> can be 
<RingSongs> no you dont 
<lizzardo> I have a website too - actually closed up my retail shop to go entirely internet 
<willjp> ok..you got me..I dont 
<willjp> alot of my clients are doing that 
<RingSongs> I was watching b5 since it came to tnt.  I just didnt tape it til the run that started in march 
<lizzardo> I started watching B5 from the beginning - the first season was sooo slow but I stuck with it - 
<willjp> Wow...so you must have gotten the whoel story pretty quick...cant imagine that... 
<willjp> I was there from season one too 
<RingSongs> I was there from Season 1...in January 1998 :) 
<willjp> :) 
<willjp> hey mvp 
<willjp> welcome 
<RingSongs> mwp :) 
<mwp> hello 
<lizzardo> I had to explain a lot of the backround at times to the newer viewers - sometimes it was pretty funny!!! 
<Larida> hi mwp 
<RingSongs> I was watching season 5 at the same time as season 1, 2, 3 and 4...not good idea 
<RingSongs> lol 
<tydalforce> i started with the original TV movie (I forget the name), but they kept messing with the times, and I lost it for a few months - didn't really get into the series until the end of 4th season when I finally found it again.  then I lost it until TNT picked it up 
<willjp> THE GATHERING :) 
<lizzardo> ring - supprised to see you still sane  ;) 
<tydalforce> thank you 
<tydalforce> stupid migraine...   i can't think 
<RingSongs> I saw the Gathering in June of 98 I think, But I didnt tape it:( TNT better rerun it soon 
<tydalforce> i doubt TNT is gonna rerun any of them 
<willjp> dont know if it will be rerun...but the videos are out on vhs 
<RingSongs> I dont want to buy it lol 
<willjp> DVD's will be out soon too...real cool...probably do the widescreen versions 
<RingSongs> I could get 6 hrs worth of stuff from a friend for less probably 
<tydalforce> were they recorded in widescreen? 
<cmcdunah> What's the topic currently, folks?  I just got here. 
<tydalforce> someone told me that they were going to make a B5 movie... i mean a REAL movie, in the theaters...   can anyone confirm/deny this? 
<RingSongs> They've been saying that since 98 
<RingSongs> there just rumors 
<willjp> ALL B5 and Crusade episodes were filmed in high definition wide=screen 
<RingSongs> go to the lurkers guide 
<RingSongs> they have sometihng on it i think 
<cmcdunah> JMS has repeatedly stated that a movie probably will happen but that it will not be anytime soon. 
<willjp> we are just rambling right now...CRUSADE AND B5 
<RingSongs> he said not til after the SW prequels 
<tydalforce> lol good plan 
<cmcdunah> Thanks, willjp 
<mwp> They talked to the guy who played bester about doing a movie.  He's interested. 
<tydalforce> Walter Koenig 
<RingSongs> Chekov 
<willjp> The whole cast is actually 
<RingSongs> even CC?? 
<willjp> But the movie wont happen for a few years at least...i wouldn't be surprised if it takes 10 years...seriously 
<cmcdunah> I'm sure CC is interested in reprising her role. 
<tydalforce> i don't wanna wait that long! 
<willjp> Sure...Claudia is not angry 
<RingSongs> Then why did Lochley come in the first place 
<willjp> what happened was her agent's fault mainly 
<RingSongs> TNT was probably behind it 
<willjp> OK HERE"S THE STORY 
<tydalforce> (c: 
<willjp> SIT BACK AND LISTEN FOR A SEC :) 
<cmcdunah> Just think how great that movie will be when JMS finally commits to it! 
<mwp> CC's website says she'd "love to put the uniform back on". 
<cmcdunah> CC had the rug pulled out from under her by the people who do all the talking and cut the deals.  She would be back in a second. 
<tydalforce> mwp, what's the address? 
<willjp> Contracts had expired, the cast was hanging around like good people waiting for season five...no one thought it would happen. 
<willjp> at the last second, tnt picked up season 5. 
<mwp> I think it's www.cchristian.com 
<willjp> They had to resign the entire cast. 
<tydalforce> thanx 
<tydalforce> yeah, that's it  (c: 
<willjp> Claudia's agent encouraged her not to rejoin and so she didn't. 
<RingSongs> I thought JMS and Claudia were arguing and stuff 
<willjp> But, she had been waiting for months after her contract had expired, so its not her fault. 
<mwp> The site has some talk about why she left.  Basically, it just took too long for year five to get confirmed. 
<willjp> The rumors of their fight were exagerated...there was no such fight... 
<willjp> It was the INTERNET people who were fighting about it 
<willjp> The skinny is, if season five would have been renewed earlier she would have been part of the cast 
<cmcdunah> I believe JMS was not happy with the way things went down, but she's a great character and I'm sure he would be happy to put it behind them for the project. 
<willjp> YES HE WAS NOT 
<willjp> He was angry that he lost her, but he was not angry at her persae... 
<cmcdunah> That's what I read, willjp 
<mwp> I think most fighting about B5 is just misdirected anger and frustration. 
<RingSongs> this is just my opinion but I didnt really like Lochley 
<willjp> If you guys havent read my B5 THAT NEVER WAS page I would recommend it...tells all about the cast situations and the plot-lines that never came about.  Secret stuff they wont tell you 
<RingSongs> www.webcs.com/ranger? 
<willjp> yes, then click on dateline: b5 
<cmcdunah> I liked her, but, I mean, we all had invested 4 years or more in Ivonova, so how was Lockley going to be as well liked?  I thought she did a great job for the situation she was in. 
<willjp> Fortunately, how the plot turned out Claudia's loss really didn't amount to much, plot wise. 
<willjp> Basically, nothing Lockley did mattered in the scheme of things. 
<mwp> Checked that website address (http://www.cchristian.com/)  ...   (Like, oh yes, I have a bookmark for it.  ;-) 
<cmcdunah> Lockley character was able to do the things Ivonova was supposed to do. 
<RingSongs> the Lochley/Gideon relationship was....interesting 
<tydalforce> i didn't like it, it was sooo bad 
<willjp> yes, I liked that twist. 
<RingSongs> Will does it say why Takashima or wahtever left after the pilot 
<willjp> She was just recast...plain and simple 
<cmcdunah> Well folks, write your letter if you haven't yet and send them off.  I have to go.  Catch you all on the Onelist email-a-rama! 
<willjp> the Gathering was just a pilot and some people they did not think fit the roles so they were re-cast for the series. 
<willjp> ok bye now 
<mwp> Will's website has a page about the 'B5 That Never Was'.  Talks about how most of the Year 5 meat was thrown into Year 4. (among other things.) 
<willjp> hi SMAUG...sorry I missed your entrance 
<willjp> There is alot of opinion there but also alot of facts 
<smaug> hi willjp -- first time here; thought I'd lurk for a while. 
* webcs CRUSADE TRIVIA TIME: 
<lizzardo> i'm out of here too! bye 
* webcs WHO WROTE RULING FROM THE TIMB? 
<RingSongs> uhhh JMS 
<RingSongs> ? 
<willjp> yes, alot of it is on Ohare 
<willjp> nope..any other guesses? 
<willjp> hi larida 
<Larida> hi willip 
<willjp> quit by accident? 
<RingSongs> Ellison? 
<RingSongs> I really have no clue 
<Larida> yes 
* webcs PETER DAVID wrote RULING 
<RingSongs> that was a hard one 
<RingSongs> lol 
<willjp> Everyone who wants one mailed for their SAVE CRUSADE T-shirt yet? 
<willjp> lol 
<tydalforce> i did (c: 
<willjp> :) 
* RingSongs probably wont get one 
<willjp> They ar definitely gonna be something you remember a long time 
<mwp> I'm planning to.  We have until 9/20, don't we? 
<willjp> anyone else got a b5 or crusade triva question? 
<RingSongs> expensive, i dont got checks or money orders either 
<RingSongs> um 
* RingSongs 's turn 
<willjp> YES...the letter has to reach me by around then 
<willjp> :) 
<RingSongs> How many Crusade eps was Galen in 
<willjp> I wont answer because its not fair...someone else  
<tydalforce> 3 times as many episodes with Lochley 
<tydalforce> lol 
<mwp> That would be 9 
<RingSongs> why wouldnt it be fair? 
<willjp> Because I keep records on that actually 
<willjp> O review each episode on my website and it specifically says which episodes he's in :) 
<willjp> so whats the answer rings? 
*** Disconnected 
*** Attempting to rejoin... 
*** Rejoined channel #ranger 
*** Topic is 'SCIFI RANGER - SAVE CRUSADE DISCUSSION' 
*** Set by webcs on Mon Aug 30 21:15:23 
-RingSongs- [Welcome] WELCOME TO THE SCIFI RANGER CHAT ROOM 
<RingSongs> err I got booted 
<RingSongs> I was reading your stie 
<RingSongs> siet 
<willjp> ahhh...looks like we had a slowed connection...seems to be fixed 
<RingSongs> very cool 
<RingSongs> :) 
<willjp> so whats the answer rings..you left us hanging? 
<RingSongs> 8 or 9... 
<willjp> believe it or not....6 
<tydalforce> okay gang, i'm gonna jet...    SAVE CRUSADE!!!!   see ya later 
<willjp> bye now 
<smaug> later 
<Larida> bye tydalforce 
<RingSongs> bye 
<mwp> I always found it strange in Crusade that half the cast could be gone from a particular episode.  Was anything said about it by JMS? 
<RingSongs> Lochley was only in 3 eps, why was she on the credits 
<willjp> I think it has to do with how much they pay them 
<RingSongs> Trace was in 3 too I think 
<willjp> I think they only pay them for a certain number of appearances 
<mwp> Probably because Lockley was the biggest carry-over from B5. 
<willjp> Yeah...lockley should NOT have bene in the opening credits...if I was the other actors I would have been agry over that 
<willjp> and she appeared SECOND on the credit scroll! 
<willjp> it wasnt like they said ...AND Lockley... 
*** irc.chatway.com sets mode: +o webcs 
<mwp> You sometimes see this in movies where a big name actor will get higher billing, probably to get more attention for the movie. 
<willjp> It was very odd though 
<RingSongs> hey will how come Lyta started, then Talia then Lyta came back..is that on your site? 
<willjp> I'm wondering if TNT insisted on having her in the cast or something...bevcause she was added to the cast late 
<mwp> Certainly not deserved if measured by screen time. 
<willjp> yes, it is...read it later though :) 
* webcs TRIVIA TIME...HERE"S A GOOD ONE: 
<RingSongs> I wanted to see franklin talk to lochley in the season finale 
<mwp> Yes, we did only see half a season. 
* webcs WHICH TWO B5 CHARACTERS WERE MARRIED IN REAL LIFE? 
<willjp> I know...why didnt they let her see Dr. Franklin? 
<mwp> garibaldi and Winters 
<willjp> very good...mwp 
<willjp> Part of the reason she left the show (rumor) was because they had broken up. 
<RingSongs> LOL 
<RingSongs> yea just read that 
<willjp> So who hav eyou guys sent letters to? 
<RingSongs> Sci FI, USA, WB 
<willjp> cool 
<mwp> Lurkers Guide (I think) reported a disagreement between her and JMS about how much screen time she would get. 
<willjp> that was likely part of it oo 
<willjp> hey dubbsy... 
<Dubbsy> Hey 
<willjp> She wasn't fitting in very well with the cast at that time. 
<Larida> hi Dubbsy 
<Dubbsy> Hello all :) 
<willjp> what's up dubbsy 
<smaug> howdy 
<willjp> But all of the cast of Crusade are technically available right now...not to say we couldnt handle a cast change 
<mwp> It's the military.  People get shifted around. 
<willjp> good point....darn good point 
<willjp> Tat's basically how they handled Sinclair..."he's gone now...tough"  Its actually realistic 
<RingSongs> "dont get me started with na'toth"? LOL I want to know about na toth! 
<willjp> hahahahahaha 
<RingSongs> no seriously 
<mwp> There's a story about the old show "The Rat Patrol".  When it became big and the producer knew that big demands for pay raises would come, the producer wrote up a bunch of scripts where each character might get killed. 
<willjp> In my opinion, she was just an extremely pointless chatacter 
<RingSongs> oh 
<RingSongs> Vir wasnt too important 
<willjp> JMS has loop=holes built into every character before the series began so they could be replaced. 
<willjp> Respect your opinion Rings, but I beg to differ. 
<RingSongs> really 
<mwp> I heard NaTooth was played by two actresses.  When one wouldn't play her as tough as they wanted, they cut NaTooth. 
<willjp> true 
<willjp> hi and bye hehe 
<mwp> Apparently the junkie just needed a small fix. 
<willjp> This is a good question: Who do you think the bad guy would have been in CRUSADE?  MAX or GALEN? 
<RingSongs> Max! 
<RingSongs> lol Galen is a total good guy 
<RingSongs> I think The Apocolypse Box is the bad guy 
<mwp> I'd say Galen.  Max is a bit too superficial. 
<RingSongs> or bad thing 
<smaug> Good question.  I don't too much care for Max, but the 'box said not to trust Galen . . . 
<willjp> Alot of people thing Galen is the bad guy 
<willjp> JMS stated that he has a HUGE secrety he's carrying 
<willjp> The box rules...period 
<RingSongs> JMS said the box is the reason gideon is on it or soemthing 
<RingSongs> I forget 
<RingSongs> I just want to know more about the box...and that shadow looking ship in the ep where cerberus got destroyed 
<willjp> He said its the reason he is on the ship 
<willjp> yeah, that was a cool shadow vessile...but definitely different 
<mwp> Remember at this time in B5, we didn't really know that the shadows exist and Morden hadn't shown up.  The bad guy probably hasn't arrived yet. 
<willjp> true...they could have added a cast member 
<willjp> or had one constantly chasing the, 
<willjp> them.. 
<willjp> interesting 
<RingSongs> We did too know about Morden 
<RingSongs> ever since season 1 
<RingSongs> with londo 
<Dubbsy> But by the 13th episode? 
<RingSongs> I tihnk 
<willjp> true...your right dubbsy.. 
<willjp> Hell, maybe Gideon was the bad guy...wouldnt that be a twist...maybe the box would make him slowly go nuts 
<Dubbsy> That's kind of what I was wondering, because if I remember, JMS said Gideon wasn't a typical captain and he had something in his past... 
<RingSongs> I wonder if we were ever going to see Sheridan guest star 
<mwp> I think JMS is still 'fleshing out' the scene.  The bad forces could be anywhere. 
<willjp> Sheriden...I would say no 
<willjp> I have always wanted them to do a series all about Babylon-4 and the first shaadow war. 
<RingSongs> I wonder if the cure would've been found by season 3 or earlier 
<RingSongs> they should do a Movie on that 
<RingSongs> lol 
<RingSongs> a TV mvoie 
<RingSongs> on sci fi channel:) 
<smaug> I would hope earlier -- otherwise, Dureena's remaining people are/were done for . . . 
<willjp> JMS has said that it ay have even been found PAST year 5...the series might have gone longer than 5 years 
<RingSongs> really? 
<Dubbsy> They would have had to found a way to at least prolong the lives of people though 
<Dubbsy> If that happened 
<willjp> Yes, he said he was keeping the year thing open this time. 
<RingSongs> well I thought he said "The show we though we were watching is not the same as what we are wathcing" or something like that 
<willjp> Yes, they might have found something to give them more time. 
<Dubbsy> Yeah... 
<willjp> did he say that? 
<RingSongs> I believe so 
<Dubbsy> They would have had to considering Franklin was in SiL 
<RingSongs> in the mailing list 
<willjp> when was this and in what context? 
<RingSongs> B5JMS mailing list 
<RingSongs> I'm on the digest 
<RingSongs> i bleieve its from the moderated newsgroup 
<RingSongs> but i dont know 
<mwp> Rings quote is something I found in Lurkers Guide 
<willjp> Is it just me guys, or was matheson's character pointless? 
<RingSongs> no... 
<RingSongs> it showed the telepath war and stuff  
<RingSongs> well what he did at least 
<willjp> I just think he was used SOOOO little 
<RingSongs> I know 
<RingSongs> he didnt ever leave the ship 
<willjp> no...he was like a stool for Gideon 
<mwp> Rings quote came from the bottom of the Lurkers Guide page at http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/509.html 
<willjp> oh thanks 
<willjp> goood work mwp 
<willjp> ok...so that quote 
<mwp> We're on-line so it's easy.  Just don't ask me anything I'd need a phone for.  ;-) 
<willjp> really states that something larger than the plague could have been the real series. 
<Dubbsy> Slightly off the subject, but speaking of the telepath war, where did that come in relation to everything?  I thought that in "A Call to Arms" Sheridan had only been president a couple of years, yet Crusade starts right after.  The telepath wars must have been rather short... 
<willjp> The plague really may have been just a teaser...oh now I want to see the series even more 
<willjp> I believe Crusade starts 5-7 years after the end of B5... 
<willjp> then again a year long war would realy be a long time (just not for TV hehehe) 
<mwp> A Call To Arms occurs 5 years after the main part of the B5 series 
<RingSongs> Crusade is 2265 
<RingSongs> JMS has hinted elsewhere that the cure might be found before the end of the series. He's also said the show we think we're watching will turn out not to be the show we're actually watching. Put these two together, and I wonder greatly if, had the next few years played out, he might have gradually uncovered some other, greater theme or conflict that would overshadow the plague, and take over the plot for the last year or so."  
<RingSongs> If not sooner....  
<willjp> when was season 5? 
<RingSongs> 2262 
<willjp> so thats just a three year window 
<willjp> well, alot can happen in 3 years 
<mwp> Actually, Crusade starts in 2267.  Check http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/506.html 
<RingSongs> just look at season 1 to 4 
<willjp> hey QK 
<willjp> welcome 
<willjp> true 
<qksilver> hello.. was there much of a crowd tonight? 
<RingSongs> no mwp...i saw sometihng on the guide that said 2265 
<RingSongs> What years would the story span? 
<RingSongs> 2265-2270.  
<willjp> 5 or 6 people so far..but we are having fun 
<RingSongs> it said that 
<mwp> In Ruling from the tomb, the meeting on Mars occurs June 15, 2267 
<RingSongs> on the main crusade page 
<RingSongs> hmm 
<RingSongs> they must've changed it 
<willjp> I've seen several dates 
<willjp> WHATS happening QK? 
<willjp> Isn't the whole telepath war covered in the three bester novels? 
<RingSongs> I dont think its in the 1st 2 
<qksilver> nothing much here... just holding out for good news  :D on crusade... I hope I hope. it was the only show I watched. :D 
<RingSongs> I didnt read them though 
<Dubbsy> I believe it's supposed to be resolved in them 
<willjp> any runors QK? 
<mwp> Third book of the trilogy.  Due out Oct 1, according to Amazon. 
<willjp> oh ok..so it isnt even out yet..gotta read that one 
<willjp> JMS hinted Garibaldi might get even with him in book three 
<willjp> Lyta was supposed to be in one of the 13 episodes, but she wasnt available :( 
* webcs TRIVA TIME: 
<smaug> I'd like to see Garibaldi get back at him. 
* webcs WHICH B5 STAR WAS AND IS A STUNT PERSON in HOLLYWOOD: 
<mwp> I heard that too.  Unless Garbaldi doesn't kill him, it seems strange that soething might happen in a book before the series. 
<qksilver> no rumors, just what everyone else hears... but I'm going through Gideon, Eilerson and Galen 
<qksilver> PAtrica Tallman 
<mwp> Lyta 
<willjp> Yep 
<willjp> Rumor was you know JMS had a crush on her 
<qksilver> oh where was i...  I'm going through Gideon Eilerson and Galen withdrawl. 
<mwp> If you look in IMDB, most of her credits are for stunts. 
<willjp> do continue QK 
<qksilver> I thought jms wrote the part for her :D 
<willjp> He was and i quote "fascinated by her work in THE LIVING DEAD" hehe 
<qksilver> well Pt is quite attractive in real life with a great personality, I could see it happening :D 
<willjp> she's a definite babe 
<RingSongs> http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/116.html 
<RingSongs> go there :) 
<willjp> You guys she Max and Dureena ever hooking up? 
<RingSongs> or Galen and Dureena... 
<qksilver> it would be interesting, but it looked like chambers & he were bonding a lot also. 
<smaug> Ugh!  Not Max and Dureena! 
*** Chatway changes topic to 'SCIFI RANGER - CRUSADE AND BABYLON-5 NEWS' 
<Dubbsy> I don't know about Max and anyone because he mentioned that he still loved his ex 
<qksilver> it's better than Max and Galen (evil evil laugh) 
<mwp> Dureena and Galen. 
<willjp> thats true...i forgot 
<RingSongs> *****NOTICE****** RERUN OF THE FINAL EPISODE OF THE SEASON IS TONIGHT AT 11PM ON TNT******* 
<willjp> Then again Galen has a major thing for his ex too.. 
<willjp> Yep...got it tapes already fortunately 
<smaug> Yeah, but Galen's ex is REALLY ex1 
<mwp> But shes dead ... 
<qksilver> yeah yeah yeah, but cynthia was.,.. such.. a .... looser! I mean, come on, I truly expect her to call Max everytime her plumbing has a problem. 
<willjp> hahahahaha 
<qksilver> Max needs someone who he doesn't have to constantly run around and be the white in  shining armor. It just ain't him, and it's exhausting at time. 
<willjp> oh boy :) 
<willjp> Yeah, he's a home boy 
<willjp> He's one of those weirdos that comes to Crusade chats :0 
<RingSongs> I can believe Sheridan was with Lochley 
<RingSongs> that was shocking 
<willjp> WELL HE WAS MARRIED TO HER 
<RingSongs> thats what i mean 
<RingSongs>  lol 
<willjp> That was established in season 5 
<RingSongs> I know 
<willjp> oh ok..just checking 
<RingSongs> it'd be funny if CC stayed and we found out Ivanova was married to Sheridan 
<qksilver> well, lochley was a lot better in Crusade I thought.  Didn't like her that much in B5, but she was... tolerable in crusade. (grin) 
<willjp> hahahahahahahahahahahaa 
<RingSongs> Lochley was ok in River of Souls and A Call To Arms 
<qksilver> Ringsong,  :D 
<Dubbsy> I really like the chemistry with Lochley and Gideon 
<willjp> Lockley has a severe problem with her dialogoe...if she pauses she has this funny expression and doesnt know how to start back up. 
<willjp> HI ALLIE! 
<mwp> I don't think a very good part was written for her in B5 
<qksilver> Yes.. I saw they even have a relationship page for the two of them. where's that web site. 
<qksilver> Hi allie! 
<willjp> yippe...Allie made it 
<Larida> hi allie 
<smaug> i thought the chemistry between them seemed kind of forced. 
<RingSongs> Did you know there are DS9 Episodes called "A Call To Arms" and "Chrysalis" 
<RingSongs> two of who qksilver 
<Allie_Sawyer> Sorry folks... fell asleep on the couch.. 
<willjp> yep 
<willjp> thats ok...it happens 
<qksilver> there's a web site for Gideon and lochley 
<Allie_Sawyer> pushed too hard the last few weeks... 
<RingSongs> oh 
<willjp> I almost went to the casino tonight but remembered I had this :) 
<willjp> Gotta scale it back Allie...too stressful 
<Allie_Sawyer> LOL... it would've been bad if YOU forogt. 
<smaug> By the way, anybody else check out the crusadesbabes web site? 
<RingSongs> How long is the chat gonna go on? until we want it to end? lol 
<willjp> Any Crusade news to add Allie? 
<Allie_Sawyer> Nah, it's the other stuff that's the problem... 
<Dubbsy> Smaug, Not recently  
<willjp> I will stay here until it fades out...officially 9 but I will stay 
<qksilver> Smaug- it's a nice site. Like the T-shirt :D 
<Allie_Sawyer> Hey Will, Allie was registered... am I supposed to have a password or something? 
<RingSongs> nope 
<mwp> 9 in which time zone??? 
<RingSongs> type in "/nick Allie" 
<willjp> You dont need a password but you can make one if you want to OWN your screen name 
<RingSongs> without the " 
<willjp> 9 eastern 
<RingSongs> oh register with nickserv right? 
<smaug> I liked the opportunity to see what Dureena looks like without the alien makeup. 
*** qksilver is now known as quicksilver 
<willjp> but like I said the chat room will stay open 
<Allie_Sawyer> Hmmm... 
*** Allie_Sawyer is now known as Allie 
<RingSongs> see its simple 
<RingSongs> but she left lol 
<willjp> some names are taken already by other users so you may get a weird message if your is taken 
<Allie_Sawyer> Woops! 
<willjp> hehe 
<Allie_Sawyer> Won't let me do that... 
<qksilver> let's see.. you didn't know the secret password either Allie? :D 
<RingSongs> hmm 
<willjp> though so...any common name is prob taken 
<Allie_Sawyer> Anyway, quick runfown... what'd I miss? 
<qksilver> So Allie is there going to be any type of Crusade table at Farpoint? 
<Allie_Sawyer> runDown... 
<Allie_Sawyer> argh... 
<willjp> oh...just rambling about the characters, who the bad guy would be, etc 
<Allie_Sawyer> Um... 
<Allie_Sawyer> Farpoint... Maryland? 
<willjp> Some think the bad guy isnt even in the vcast yet 
<qksilver> yeah october 9 or whatever. Carrie Dobro and Peter  are supposed to be there. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Tm & Heather are probably close by... but Tim's got an ulcer and Heather won't do it without him.. 
<willjp> ouch 
<qksilver> Ohhh... sad to here that. 
<Allie_Sawyer> You planning on going? 
<qksilver> The bad guy is Ted Turner. don't forget that willjp 
<Allie_Sawyer> Hmmm... bad guy... 
<qksilver> Yes 
<willjp> :) 
<Allie_Sawyer> I don't think there's a bad guy... there's the Drakh... 
<willjp> Do you guys really think TED has any idea what in hell is going on either way? 
<Dubbsy> <Back to slightly OT... I looked it up  B5 ends 2262, Telepath war -2264-2265, Call to arms 2266, then War Zone> 
<RingSongs> what I dont understand is, there is so much talk about how much Sci Fi wanted it, really wanted it, in february, but now they might not? 
<Allie_Sawyer> Well, if you want to do it... I can try to contact the Farpoint guy and see if we can get a table... 
<qksilver> Willjp- no actually he doesn't have any idea. but it's easier to use him as the catch all name to blame stuff on. :D 
<willjp> ok..thats cool with me 
<willjp> SO...is scifi gonna make some announcement either way for cryig out loud? 
<mwp> To say there's a 'bad guy' is probably too simplistic.  Remember in B5, the Vorlons and the Shadows are about equally bad by the end. 
<qksilver> allie-- not that adventerous to do the entire con. sorry. 
<willjp> I mean, they are really P$%^&( me off...if its no then say NO officially 
<willjp> I live in MASS...so prob cant make it to MARYLAND 
<qksilver> Remember.. no one is as they seem. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Well, back in Feb. the statement released was that they were very interested but they didn't have the money. 
<willjp> THEY HAVE THE MONEY NOW 
<qksilver> Except for Matheson, he's a bloody boy scout (: 
<Allie_Sawyer> A lot of people have said that that was just a polite way of saying they weren't interested. 
<willjp> They most definitely have the money reserved for another show 
<Allie_Sawyer> I think that last is too simplistic. 
<RingSongs> especially since sliders is done 
<Allie_Sawyer> They do have money reserved... but 
<willjp> They were spending alotof money on sliders per episode 
<Allie_Sawyer> I think there are definite problems with Crusade from their perspective 
<qksilver> Do you think JMS might have burnt a few bridges? 
<Allie_Sawyer> they want a show of their own. 
<smaug> It could *be* a show of their own -- TNT obviously never claimed it. 
<Allie_Sawyer> they've never been a big fan of SMART sci fi 
<RingSongs> well trekkies saved Star Trek so why dont they listen to fans these days 
<willjp> Although I do give major kudos to Farscape 
<Allie_Sawyer> Yes, but it would be a WB product... unless WB also sells it. 
*** qksilver is now known as quicksilver99 
<Allie_Sawyer> Yes, I do think Farscape is better than their other crap by a long shout. 
<Allie_Sawyer> shot 
<mwp> Remember, TNT still has a lot of power to create problems.  They probably will try to extort money to go away. 
<willjp> crap is right 
<RingSongs> well Star Trek isnt there own and they've got trek for a year now 
<willjp> I love Seaquest but enough already 
<RingSongs> I love farscape 
* Dubbsy still doesn't understand TNT 

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<Allie_Sawyer> Yes, but that's a bit different... Trek that is... because Trek is a big name Franchise... 
<RingSongs> or Paramount sold it 
<RingSongs> because I dont see it on UPN anymore 
<Allie_Sawyer> but the fact that they have Trek does cause troubles... 
<quicksilver99> HOw allie? 
<RingSongs> trek is moving to 2pm next month.. 
<Allie_Sawyer> well, for some reason there has always been something of an either or mentality as it comes to Trek and B5... 
<Allie_Sawyer> most networks haven't wanted both. 
<RingSongs> 2pm pacific 
<RingSongs> UPN did 
<RingSongs> KCOP 13 
<RingSongs> Los ANgeles 
<Allie_Sawyer> Space in Canada has been the one major exception 
<RingSongs> DS9 and B5 the same night 
<Allie_Sawyer> Rins, that's a local UPN... 
<willjp> the move is just local to you...every station is different 
<RingSongs> and they were both syndicated 
<Allie_Sawyer> that's different... 
<quicksilver99> Or is it more of a Sci Fi verses ST- that most stations want the name brand association that comes with Trek as opposed to say B5? 
<willjp> I think the only way a show like Crusade can make a go of it is in Syndication 
<Allie_Sawyer> in syndication the problem disappears. 
<RingSongs> why dont they syndicate it agian 
<RingSongs> like they did with b5 
<Allie_Sawyer> I tend to agree Will, but JMS says the market for syndicates is flooded... there's just no room for it now. 
<willjp> and alot of the scifi shows in synd have been cancelled this season so it isnt like there isnt a need for one righ tnow 
<mwp> a lot of money disappears also. 
<Allie_Sawyer> I think that's premature... 
<willjp> it WAS flooded 
<willjp> thinks are very different this season 
<RingSongs> my UPN sucks DS9 reruns are at 4:30 am whos gonna stay up that late or get up that early 
<Allie_Sawyer> I agree, I think JMS's statement is premature... but I also think that right now isn't the safest time for WB to hit syndication with Crusade... 
* webcs TRIVA TIME: 
<Allie_Sawyer> they may however be VERY CAREFULLY testing the syndicate market with the few more local stations that have been given the right to show Crusade... 
* webcs WHO OFFICIALLY DISBANDED THE PSICORPS? 
<quicksilver99> earthgov? 
<RingSongs> Matheson? lol 
<mwp> If TNT controls the right to create new Crusade episodes, it's all academic anyway. 
<Allie_Sawyer> The Senate Committee on Metaphysics 
<willjp> more specific 
* webcs THE SENATE...CORRECT 
<RingSongs> The Joint Cheif's? i dont know 
<RingSongs> oh  
<quicksilver99> So allie... since you're really the local Crusade guru, what was your fave episode? And which character did you like the best? 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT controls the BROADCAST rights until Feb. 2000... a few small stations are being allowed to broadcast Crusade... I think the smart money is to wait and see how it does there... then move to syndication if it works. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Guru? Hardly... 
<RingSongs> TNT controls CRUSADE? 
<RingSongs> I thought it was jsut B5 
<Allie_Sawyer> My favorite ep?  That's a tough one... 
<RingSongs> not for me...easily racing the night and the last one:) 
<quicksilver99> that was the best way to say it, you're one of the main ones putting their heart n' soul into the crusade for crusade. 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT has the broadcast rights to Crusade until Feb. 2000, I believe... 
<Dubbsy> TNT has the rights for 2 years 
<willjp> but who is giving these stations permission, TNT or WB? 
<quicksilver99> and getting us despondent people writing our letters.. so guru you are, m'dear. :D 
<Allie_Sawyer> I think that Needs of Earth was my favorite... 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT and WB have to... 
<RingSongs> then if TNT disagreed with sci fi being able to show crusade what would happen 
<Allie_Sawyer> Dubbsy, you're right about something there, but I'm not sure which rights those are... although I saw that recently... 
<willjp> But which one is it?  TNT or WB?  I cant see them working together can you? 
<Allie_Sawyer> They both do... 
<RingSongs> TNT is owned by WB 
<Allie_Sawyer> WB owns, TNT has the rights.. 
<RingSongs> isnt it 
<Allie_Sawyer> No TNT is owned by Time Warner 
<willjp> Its nuts isnt it 
<Allie_Sawyer> which also owns WB 
<quicksilver99> Maybe TnT doesn't have  the rights to crusade out of their broadcast area? 
<RingSongs> Time Warner--Warner Brothers 
<mwp> "Appearances and Other Deceits" is my fav. 
<RingSongs> aint it the same warner guy 
<RingSongs> lol 
<willjp> They should have put Crusade on the WB network...and they always say they couldn't have done that and its complete BULL$%^&...they can do anything. 
<RingSongs> yea 
<RingSongs> but WB network has no sci fi 
<willjp> They can get it on TNT but they cant get it on their own netowkr..PLEASE 
<Allie_Sawyer> There's conflicts in T-W's empire that make it most unlikely that it would work Will. 
<Allie_Sawyer> They will Rings... they're going to have Roswell... although that hardly counts. 
<willjp> If they cant get it on their own network then, then where in god's name is the hope 
<RingSongs> How is Roswell sci fi? 
<Allie_Sawyer> Aliens in it. 
<RingSongs> Thats like saying Buffy is sci fi 
<RingSongs> oh 
<RingSongs> I didnt know 
<willjp> I know there are conflicts...but that's also another way of saying they are too lazy to go through the red tape..it could have been done 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT isn't their own network.  Time-Warner is a parent company.  It doesn't have the authority here. 
<quicksilver99> well good bye everyone.. keep the faith.   I can't imagine life w/o Galen and Max :D 
<RingSongs> is TBS owned by time warner too? 
<willjp> bye QS 
<Allie_Sawyer> Anyway, back to the Q about whether TNT could stop Crusade from going to Sci Fi -- YES 
<Allie_Sawyer> BUT 
<willjp> I think if they intensionally scuttled the series there would be some MAJOR lawsuits. 
<Allie_Sawyer> They have an agreement with WB that if another home can be found, they'll let it go in exchange for certain perks. 
<willjp> Even if they have the rights, there has to be something in their contract that prevents them from doing harm. 
<smaug> Haven't they intentionally scuttled the series already? 
<willjp> AHHHAAA 
<willjp> do we know the perks? 
<Dubbsy> This is my understanding: TNT is not honoring their 2 year contract to make the show, shouldn't their holding of the rights be revoked therefore? 
<Allie_Sawyer> Nope. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Dubbsy --nope. 
<RingSongs> what will happen to the B5 reruns after february 2000 
<Allie_Sawyer> As an attorney, I can explain this one to you... 
<willjp> ALLIE: does TNT owe WB the money for one season or two? 
<Dubbsy> Good, cause it's confusing me ;-) 
<Allie_Sawyer> Don't know that, I'm guessing one will. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Ok, hang on, let me explain this contract business. 
<willjp> ok...cause there is some question there 
<mwp> They probably have a 2 year *RIGHT* to make the show, not an obligation to make it. 
<smaug> Shoot, allie! 
<Allie_Sawyer> First, rights and obligations under a contract are not the same. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Obligations are promises you have to perform. 
<willjp> oh thats a good point..maybe MWP they can fullfill their obligations within the 2 year window. 
<Dubbsy> Yeah, the rights are just hte option 
<Allie_Sawyer> Rights are what you get in exchange. 
<Allie_Sawyer> in a contract like this anyway. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Now... 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT is obliged under the contract to pay for 22 eps... 
<willjp> yes, correct 
<Allie_Sawyer> in exchange for that, they get certain rights to Crusade. 
<Allie_Sawyer> What exactly they are is beyond my knowledge, but some broadcast rights. 
<Allie_Sawyer> But... 
<Allie_Sawyer> having breached that contract... not performing their obligations... 
<Allie_Sawyer> does not automatically entitle the other parties to stop performing their obligations. 
<RingSongs> will there be no b5 reruns after feb. 2000 
<willjp> Allie: there may be a buyout clause in their too. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Because if it went to court, then there would be a danger of the court finding that TNT could have restored their breach and then charging the permanent breach to the other non-fulfilling parties. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Plus, it's not in JMS or WB's best interests to treat the contract as non-existent. 
<willjp> Doesnt WB pay for some of the series on its own? 
<Allie_Sawyer> I'm sure there is some kind of buyout option Will. 
<Allie_Sawyer> WB owns the series. 
<willjp> So the series is TOTALLY funded by one source? 
<Allie_Sawyer> No, but ownership isn't dependent on payment... 
<Allie_Sawyer> ownership is a bundle of rights... 
<willjp> true... 
<Allie_Sawyer> WB has distribution rights... 
<willjp> everyone have any questions on that? 
<RingSongs> i'm confused about the b5 reurns 
<RingSongs> reruns 
<willjp> ok...what's your confusion? 
<Allie_Sawyer> which means beyond any existing contracted rights to TNT, WB controls the fate of Crusade. 
<smaug> I give up!  I think i'd rather deal with the PsiCops than our legal system . . . 
<Allie_Sawyer> B5 reruns are not tied to Crusade. 
<RingSongs> who owns the rights? TNT? WB? 
<RingSongs> for b5 
<Dubbsy> WB  
<RingSongs> so the b5 reruns do not end in feb 2000? 
<Dubbsy> Owns the show at least 
<Allie_Sawyer> which rights? (although I don't know the answer) 
<Dubbsy> What is it, Lock stock and barrel 
<willjp> RIGHTS are TNT..ownership is WB 
<willjp> yes, it depends what rights 
<Allie_Sawyer> Rights for broadcast are TNT... 
<RingSongs> how long is TNT's rights  
<RingSongs> for b5 
<Allie_Sawyer> other ownership rights are WB 
<willjp> 2 years 
<Dubbsy> Too long 
<Allie_Sawyer> I believe for 2 more years... 
<Allie_Sawyer> OK... 
<RingSongs> so with this new slow way, they'll repeat it 2 more times about? 
<Allie_Sawyer> here's a smart way to envision this whole scenario... 
<willjp> I doubt they will air B5 much longer 
<Dubbsy> By Feb?  No way 
<RingSongs> see I am taping the episodes and unfortuneately this run got screwed up 
<RingSongs> oh shoot 
<RingSongs> I messed up 
<willjp> Its in TNT's best interest to actually not air B5 much longer, because the more it is shown the more value it looses 
<Allie_Sawyer> Don't worry... B5 isn't going anywhere... 
<willjp> hi shawn 
<RingSongs> I froget its gonna be 2000 in 3 motnhs 
<RingSongs> I missed some episodes on the way in season 1 and 2:( 
<RingSongs> and 3 
<Dubbsy> LoL, TNT's target audience 
<willjp> :) 
<Allie_Sawyer> it's not going anywhere... and it's available on video, or will be... 
<willjp> DVD soon too Allie 
<RingSongs> do you knwo if they'll ever repeat the gathering 
<Allie_Sawyer> Anyway, listen think of all of this as wrapped together this way: 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT has rights to both Crusade and B5 
<Allie_Sawyer> they want out of both 
<Allie_Sawyer> WB owns B5 and Crusade 
<RingSongs> They want out of B5 too? 
<willjp> No 
<Allie_Sawyer> at present they're content to have both, although they tire of Crusade 
<willjp> WB and TNT both have each other in interesting legal positions 
<RingSongs> I'm sure Sci Fi Channel would love to add B5 reruns to there channel... 
<Allie_Sawyer> Yes Will, the recent announcements indicate that they are not pleased with the "less than stellar outings of B5" 
<mwp> Which brings us back to what I said on the list a week ago.  TNT will likely make a deal fairly soon.  If they wait two year, they'll have nothing except the 
<Allie_Sawyer> Babylonian, Netter, and the fans want more B5 and more Crusade 
<RingSongs> the rerun ratings for b5 are probably bad because its on at at 7 and 8 am 
<mwp> obligation to pay for the rest of Crusade, season one. 
<Allie_Sawyer> agreed Rings... not so soon mwp... 
<willjp> NETTER definitely does...I think Copeland and NETTER are the forces that will eventually bring it back 
<mwp> For me, soon is 6-12 months. 
<Allie_Sawyer> don't write JMS out... he's tired, but he'll be there for his baby in the end. 
<willjp> I'm not 
<RingSongs> I need b5 to continue repeating almost as much as I want crusade to continue:( 
<willjp> I would feel the same and do 
<Allie_Sawyer> ok mwp, that's a decent time frame... I'd say before Feb. 2000 
<Allie_Sawyer> Anyway, here there's more to this scenario... 
<willjp> Well, warm up your VCR and dont wait! 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT wants out of Crusade badly enough that they'd probably be willing to get out of B5 sooner just to have done with it. 
<willjp> That gives TNT a willingness to shop it around themselves doesnt it? 
<Allie_Sawyer> now WB will hold them into their contracts for both, as hard as they can, if they cause any trouble for WB's shopping it around.. 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT can't shop it... they don't own it. 
<willjp> but they can encourage unofficially 
<Allie_Sawyer> WB, knowing this has a bargaining chip: rerun rights to B5 
<RingSongs> i dont even think season 5 (rerun) will be done by february 
<Allie_Sawyer> yes will, but they'll steer clear... 
<willjp> ok 
<Allie_Sawyer> Rings, B5 won't disappear before Feb. 
<RingSongs> but after feb? 
<Allie_Sawyer> I think anyway Will... they either will pick it up for themselves or keep their mouths shut.. 
<willjp> no one knows Rings 
<Dubbsy> Yeah, it will on the 26th  
<Allie_Sawyer> that depends on what I'm saying Rings... see, they've got rights for two more years... so it could disappear.... but i don't think so... 
<willjp> I cant think of a TV case that has happened in this manner before 
<Allie_Sawyer> Anyway, WB can use rerun rights to B5 as a bargaining chip with Sci Fi, because they know TNT will release them rather than get stuck with Crusade 
<RingSongs> Did they sign it for 4 years or something? 
<mwp> If they're paying for it, they'll probably show it.  Too hard to make excuses otherwise. 
<willjp> Allie: isn't there some law about using a bargaining chip you dont technically have the rights to befor eyou have the rights to it? 
<Allie_Sawyer> And, WB can also promise television movies... and more or less exclusive rerun rights on Crusade... which is why they are holding those so close... 
<willjp> Yeah, WB is willing to give the farm basically 
<Allie_Sawyer> no law Will... just you can get in real trouble if you promise it and can't deliver.. but what I'm guessing is that TNT will be involved indirectly in any negotiations... 
<RingSongs> I need some dinner I'll be back soon guys... 
<willjp> just gotta point out that that is an asumption there. 
*** RingSongs is now known as RingSongs|Away 
<Allie_Sawyer> and so as long as TNT promises collaterally to deliver up B5, there's no problem in selling it... 
<smaug> Well, thanks all, I've gotta run.  Keep the faith! 
<willjp> contingant on TNT participating 
<Allie_Sawyer> go ahead Will... 
<willjp> in the negotiations. 
<Allie_Sawyer> Yes, but as I've said, there are damn good reasons to think that TNT will be compliant... another one is that if they aren't, WB can threaten to force suit over the broken contract... 
<willjp> Each party is walking a very fine line...I think this is why JMS is staying so far out of it.   
<Allie_Sawyer> and TNT *is* in breach... 
<willjp> that I have no doubt of! 
<mwp> After last spring, SFC may be just as pissed at TNT as everyone else. 
* webcs BREACH BEACH hehe 
<Allie_Sawyer> TNT's breach puts them in a bad position... they can't really not cooperate... 
<willjp> They really arent making too many friends are they 
<Allie_Sawyer> Check my page... 
<Allie_Sawyer> I have a comment from JMS on this... I think it says 
<willjp> you would think they would be more concerned with hurting their name (TNT)...I mean other production companies are going to look at this. 
<Allie_Sawyer> that TNT is still bound by their contract and they aren't out of the woods their yet. 
<Allie_Sawyer> You would think so... 
<RingSongs|Away> ahh what the heck dinner can wait i got cherry pepsi:) 
*** RingSongs|Away is now known as RingSongs 
<willjp> hahahahahahaha 
<Allie_Sawyer> but then, you'd think JMS would be worried about hurting his name... but apparently, he's not.  He's more concerned with making good art. 
<willjp> he was pretty muched damned either way though 
<mwp> The wording is a bit different than technically being in breach of contract. 
<willjp> no..they are in breach!!! 
<RingSongs> allie whats your url 
<RingSongs> ionly have crusade for crusade in my bookmarks.. 
<mwp> They may not be in breach of contract until some date passes and they haven't paid. 
<Allie_Sawyer> www.darkmoonrising.com/voice/default.asp 
* webcs IF I COULD JUST GET EVERYONE'S ATTENTION FOR A MINUTE: (PLEASE STOP CHATTING) 
<Allie_Sawyer> MWP, I do believe they are in breach. 
<Allie_Sawyer> (sorry) 
<RingSongs> in feb they will be 
* webcs SEPT 27th MARJEAN WILL BE HERE...same TIME... 
* webcs 7:30 to 9:00 EASTERN 
* webcs PLEASE ATTEND... 
<RingSongs> did your logging work 
<webcs> There will also be another general chat ealry October to catch up on things 
<webcs> and Pat is planning some chats too right Allie? 
<webcs> dont know yet rings 
<Allie_Sawyer> Pam is yes... 
<Allie_Sawyer> I believe anyway... 
<RingSongs> in here? 
<webcs> Ok I will check with her and put her dates on my page too 
<webcs> no....not as far as I know 
<webcs> although if Pam needs a server with IRC capabilities she is welcomed! 
<RingSongs> doh i hope its irc capable 
<webcs> as far as I know it is not 
<RingSongs> oh 
<Allie_Sawyer> At least one of her sites is IRC compatible, 
* webcs RESUME NORMAL CHAT BY THE WAY...THANKS 
<Allie_Sawyer> we used one almost exactly like this. 
<webcs> ok. 
<Allie_Sawyer> But they don't always function that well... 
<RingSongs> are you sending the log to the list? 
<Allie_Sawyer> this one is pretty stable... seems good. 
<willjp> yes, I would be happy to host them here if she needs it...stable all the way through tonight 
<willjp> havent checked the logs yet rings 
<RingSongs> no but mine is fine :) 
<willjp> RINGS...please send me it to livewebcs@aol.com if you could!!!! 
<Allie_Sawyer> I think she's working on it... 
<RingSongs> i will when were done 
<willjp> I am going to be logging off now but you are are welcomed to stay 
<Allie_Sawyer> hard to say Will as she's been scarce lately... 
<willjp> I would like to thank you all for coming 
<Allie_Sawyer> did you get the email I sent explaining why? 
<willjp> ALLIE: great legal insight...thanks alot 
<Allie_Sawyer> Thanks for having us Will 
<Allie_Sawyer> No problem... I do the best I can. 
<willjp> I dont remember...there have been so many emails...the list is nuts. 
<Allie_Sawyer> This was offlist. 
<willjp> oh...its hard to distinguish sometimes... 
<Allie_Sawyer> It's called "Some thoughts -- positive ones, so don't lose it"  or something like that... :) 
<willjp> ok...I'll look for it 
<RingSongs> allie, last crusade ep is repeated tonight 
<Allie_Sawyer> yep 
* webcs BTW...all those who want T-shirts..make sure they get in the mail soon :) 
<RingSongs> i taped it but i might watchit anyways 
<Allie_Sawyer> we should get ratings for the first run tomorrow... 
<Allie_Sawyer> things got held up because of the long weekend. 
<willjp> GOODBYE TO ALL OF YOU, GOODBLESS AND HAVE A GREAT NIGHT...WILLIAM J PINIARSKI 
<Allie_Sawyer> BYE! 
<RingSongs> bye 
<mwp> bye and thanks 
<Dubbsy> Later all! 
* webcs chat room will remain open if you need it...over and out 
<Allie_Sawyer> Must go myself... too much to do... must get to it. 
<Allie_Sawyer> It's been nice everyone. 
<RingSongs> bye 
*** Disconnected 
Session Close: Mon Sep 06 18:35:28 1999